God Damns Sinners
Has anyone else had the reaction I have to hearing the Rev. Wright sayGod Damn America? I went to church and was told that sinning got damned. big whoop.
Damnation is earned, not given. I am very sure that loving is the way to whatever paradise there is. Let me share something I love with you, and sorry but it's a prayer. I love this.
btw, this St Francis wouldn't go the pay the priest, get forgivenroute. yep = excommunicated.
Yep. I do believe this. It's something I repeat often. Sorry if you are offended by my beliefs, but I feel like we're all free and we can believe what seems right to us.
I will practice teachings that command us to love one another. I take pride in the teachings of those who ask us all to refuse to torture, as I promoted to you yesterday.
We have allowed war criminals to take over our government. We are going to have to take control from them. They are destroying all our values.
For those of you who didn't grow up Southern Methodist,and find out it means that people with dark coloration aren't allowed to belong to your church, I offer you this that gives you an option to give a boot to horrors that have been visited on our country.
Please join me, and other signers of this petition, in rejecting the worst we have ever had in high office in this country.
Sorry to repeat myself,but here you are:
Subject : AN APPEAL TO SMU PETITION SIGNERS
I am Andrew J. Weaver, who organized the petition at www.protectSMU.org. I am an ordained United Methodist minister and research psychologist living in New York City. There are over 11,700 petition signers from every state, including 29 U.S. Bishops. The petition also has worldwide support from Methodist leaders in Britain, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Ireland and Sri Lanka.
President Gerald Turner of SMU Sends Out Letter
On April 11, three days after Gerald Turner sent a letter to all the delegates to the South Central Jurisdiction of the United Methodist Church (UMC) extolling the supposed financial advantages and other virtues of the Bush library and partisan think-tank, Bush announced to the media that he has been deeply involved from the beginning in the details of the use of torture that he authorized.
ABC News reported: “President Bush says he knew his top national security advisers discussed and approved specific details about how high-value al Qaeda suspects would be interrogated by the Central Intelligence Agency.” According to White House sources, the discussions about torture techniques were so detailed that some of the “interrogation sessions were almost choreographed” (1-2).
A month earlier, on March 8, Bush vetoed legislation banning waterboarding and other methods of torture used by government employees. The legislation would have limited CIA agents to 19 less-aggressive tactics outlined in the U.S. Army field manual. The president stated that the government “needs to use tougher methods than the U.S. military to wrest information from terrorism suspects” (3). It has been highly documented that at least 19 prisoners have been tortured to death by the U.S. military (4).
Waterboarding has a long and sickening history. It was used as a means of torture and coerced baptism during the Protestant Reformation and Spanish Inquisition to convert Jews, Mennonites, witches, and other suspected heretics. It consists of immobilizing an individual on his or her back with the head inclined downward, and pouring water over the face to force the inhalation of water into the lungs. As the victim gags and chokes, the terror of imminent death is pervasive.
Torture is a crime against humanity and a violation of every human rights treaty in existence. It represents a betrayal of the deepest values of the UMC that founded and built SMU. In the supposedly “less enlightened” 18th century, John Wesley explicitly preached against the torture of prisoners of war:
War itself is justifiable only on principles of self-preservation: Therefore it gives us no right over prisoners, but to hinder their hurting us by confining them. Much less can it give a right to torture, or kill, or even to enslave an enemy when the war is over (5).
Bush, who claims to be a “proud Methodist,” shows no sign of contrition or regret or remorse or repentance for his un=Christian behavior. To the contrary, he continues to try to justify himself and protect those in our government who have used and continue to use torture. Lutheran Dietrich Bonhoffer in Nazi Germany rightly called the cowardliness of the Christians in that terrible time to make evil-doers accountable for their wicked deeds “cheap grace”. Building a monument to this torturer-in-chief on a UMC campus to “celebrate this great president, celebrate his accomplishments” (6) is a defilement of our church that will permanently damage our credibility to proclaim the Christian faith.
(1) http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/LawPolitics/Story?id=4635175&page=1
(2) http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/041908Y.shtml
(3) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/08/AR2008030800304.html
(4) Oath Betrayed: Military Medicine and the War on Terror by Steven H. Miles
(5) http://new.gbgm-umc.org/umhistory/wesley/slavery
(6) Statement by Don Evans, the Chair and a chief fundraiser for the George W. Bush foundation on Feb. 22, 2008
The Legal Case is in Place
Our legal team tells us that we must go to court to protect the property rights and voting rights of the 290 Jurisdictional delegates who are the elected representatives of the property owners, the 1.83 million UMC members of the South Central Jurisdiction (SCJ). To do so we need at least one delegate willing to step forward to be the plaintiff in the case. So far we have not found such a delegate. Many fear the consequences to their future ministry if they challenge their bishop. If you know a delegate in the SCJ who might be a part of our case please ask her or him to contact me at ajweaver711@aol.com.
The lawyers, including a former head of the Texas Bar Association, who have given us free counsel and legal research for several months, are telling us we have a solid legal case which we have a very good chance to win. Through your wonderful generosity we have the funds to start the legal process. You have my deep appreciation for your faithfulness. Unfortunately, without a delegate we can not go forward. Can you help us locate one?
Finally, continue to encourage your friends and colleagues to sign the petition. Each person is important. We need to tell officials of the UMC at every level that we find an association with George W. Bush unacceptable.
With Best Regards,
Rev. Andrew J. Weaver, Ph.D.
Please don't let war criminals use the white branch of the Methodist Church as cover for their crimes.
Damnation is earned, not given. I am very sure that loving is the way to whatever paradise there is. Let me share something I love with you, and sorry but it's a prayer. I love this.
btw, this St Francis wouldn't go the pay the priest, get forgivenroute. yep = excommunicated.
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace,
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
where there is sadness, joy;
O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
Yep. I do believe this. It's something I repeat often. Sorry if you are offended by my beliefs, but I feel like we're all free and we can believe what seems right to us.
I will practice teachings that command us to love one another. I take pride in the teachings of those who ask us all to refuse to torture, as I promoted to you yesterday.
We have allowed war criminals to take over our government. We are going to have to take control from them. They are destroying all our values.
For those of you who didn't grow up Southern Methodist,and find out it means that people with dark coloration aren't allowed to belong to your church, I offer you this that gives you an option to give a boot to horrors that have been visited on our country.
Please join me, and other signers of this petition, in rejecting the worst we have ever had in high office in this country.
Sorry to repeat myself,but here you are:
Subject : AN APPEAL TO SMU PETITION SIGNERS
I am Andrew J. Weaver, who organized the petition at www.protectSMU.org. I am an ordained United Methodist minister and research psychologist living in New York City. There are over 11,700 petition signers from every state, including 29 U.S. Bishops. The petition also has worldwide support from Methodist leaders in Britain, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Ireland and Sri Lanka.
President Gerald Turner of SMU Sends Out Letter
On April 11, three days after Gerald Turner sent a letter to all the delegates to the South Central Jurisdiction of the United Methodist Church (UMC) extolling the supposed financial advantages and other virtues of the Bush library and partisan think-tank, Bush announced to the media that he has been deeply involved from the beginning in the details of the use of torture that he authorized.
ABC News reported: “President Bush says he knew his top national security advisers discussed and approved specific details about how high-value al Qaeda suspects would be interrogated by the Central Intelligence Agency.” According to White House sources, the discussions about torture techniques were so detailed that some of the “interrogation sessions were almost choreographed” (1-2).
A month earlier, on March 8, Bush vetoed legislation banning waterboarding and other methods of torture used by government employees. The legislation would have limited CIA agents to 19 less-aggressive tactics outlined in the U.S. Army field manual. The president stated that the government “needs to use tougher methods than the U.S. military to wrest information from terrorism suspects” (3). It has been highly documented that at least 19 prisoners have been tortured to death by the U.S. military (4).
Waterboarding has a long and sickening history. It was used as a means of torture and coerced baptism during the Protestant Reformation and Spanish Inquisition to convert Jews, Mennonites, witches, and other suspected heretics. It consists of immobilizing an individual on his or her back with the head inclined downward, and pouring water over the face to force the inhalation of water into the lungs. As the victim gags and chokes, the terror of imminent death is pervasive.
Torture is a crime against humanity and a violation of every human rights treaty in existence. It represents a betrayal of the deepest values of the UMC that founded and built SMU. In the supposedly “less enlightened” 18th century, John Wesley explicitly preached against the torture of prisoners of war:
War itself is justifiable only on principles of self-preservation: Therefore it gives us no right over prisoners, but to hinder their hurting us by confining them. Much less can it give a right to torture, or kill, or even to enslave an enemy when the war is over (5).
Bush, who claims to be a “proud Methodist,” shows no sign of contrition or regret or remorse or repentance for his un=Christian behavior. To the contrary, he continues to try to justify himself and protect those in our government who have used and continue to use torture. Lutheran Dietrich Bonhoffer in Nazi Germany rightly called the cowardliness of the Christians in that terrible time to make evil-doers accountable for their wicked deeds “cheap grace”. Building a monument to this torturer-in-chief on a UMC campus to “celebrate this great president, celebrate his accomplishments” (6) is a defilement of our church that will permanently damage our credibility to proclaim the Christian faith.
(1) http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/LawPolitics/Story?id=4635175&page=1
(2) http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/041908Y.shtml
(3) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/08/AR2008030800304.html
(4) Oath Betrayed: Military Medicine and the War on Terror by Steven H. Miles
(5) http://new.gbgm-umc.org/umhistory/wesley/slavery
(6) Statement by Don Evans, the Chair and a chief fundraiser for the George W. Bush foundation on Feb. 22, 2008
The Legal Case is in Place
Our legal team tells us that we must go to court to protect the property rights and voting rights of the 290 Jurisdictional delegates who are the elected representatives of the property owners, the 1.83 million UMC members of the South Central Jurisdiction (SCJ). To do so we need at least one delegate willing to step forward to be the plaintiff in the case. So far we have not found such a delegate. Many fear the consequences to their future ministry if they challenge their bishop. If you know a delegate in the SCJ who might be a part of our case please ask her or him to contact me at ajweaver711@aol.com.
The lawyers, including a former head of the Texas Bar Association, who have given us free counsel and legal research for several months, are telling us we have a solid legal case which we have a very good chance to win. Through your wonderful generosity we have the funds to start the legal process. You have my deep appreciation for your faithfulness. Unfortunately, without a delegate we can not go forward. Can you help us locate one?
Finally, continue to encourage your friends and colleagues to sign the petition. Each person is important. We need to tell officials of the UMC at every level that we find an association with George W. Bush unacceptable.
With Best Regards,
Rev. Andrew J. Weaver, Ph.D.
Please don't let war criminals use the white branch of the Methodist Church as cover for their crimes.
posted by Ruth at 8:31 AM
5 Comments:
btw, this St Francis wouldn't go the pay the priest, get forgivenroute. yep = excommunicated.
What does this mean? Are you saying that St. Francis was excommunicated?
yes, he was
Two evangelical Catholic movements of the high middle ages, the Waldensians and Franciscans, illustrate well these contrasting responses to obedience. When the Archbishop of Lyons forbade Peter Waldo and his followers to preach, Peter appealed to the Pope, who gave him and his followers permission to preach, but only in the dioceses where they had the permission of the local bishop. When this restriction appeared too hampering, the Waldensians, in their zeal, disregarded it, believing they ought to obey God rather than man, and were eventually excommunicated. St. Francis likewise went to Rome and humbly submitted himself to the Pope, who had a dream the very night before his arrival in which Christ told him that it was through St. Francis that He was going to rebuild the Church. The Pope gave him permission but with the same caveat that he and his followers could only preach in dioceses where they had the permission of the local bishop. St. Francis obeyed the injunction, trusting that God would guide him and his brothers through this directive. Together they went on to renew the medieval church, and his influence is still strong today. For him, obeying legitimately exercised God-ordained authority was obeying God.
http://www.evangelicalcatholic.com/AboutEC/HowECMinistryWorks/TenWellspringsofGrace/ObediencetotheChurch/tabid/114/Default.aspx
But this says that the Waldensians were excommunicated, and Francis wasn't. After all, Francis was recognized as a saint just a couple of years after his death. How could that be, if he was excommunicated?
ummm not preaching what he tho't he had heard from his christ (the christ = the anointed son of god) was his excommunication. not going into a bunch of dogma, but it was all about paying for forgiveness, and St Francis refused to go along with the money circle ... his preaching was from the christ, the church rejected it.
sorry but the catholic church was built on that money
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